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  1. #1
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    Millions were in germ war tests

    Quite old news now (2002 I think this article was published), but I thought i'd post it anyway for those who haven't heard of this before.

    It's quite frightening to know what governments can do behind everyones back, and the liberties they can take with all of our lives "for our own good".

    The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.
    A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979.
    Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told.
    While details of some secret trials have emerged in recent years, the 60-page report reveals new information about more than 100 covert experiments.
    The report reveals that military personnel were briefed to tell any 'inquisitive inquirer' the trials were part of research projects into weather and air pollution.
    The tests, carried out by government scientists at Porton Down, were designed to help the MoD assess Britain's vulnerability if the Russians were to have released clouds of deadly germs over the country.
    In most cases, the trials did not use biological weapons but alternatives which scientists believed would mimic germ warfare and which the MoD claimed were harmless. But families in certain areas of the country who have children with birth defects are demanding a public inquiry.
    One chapter of the report, 'The Fluorescent Particle Trials', reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles inland, its fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored. In another trial using zinc cadmium sulphide, a generator was towed along a road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour.
    While the Government has insisted the chemical is safe, cadmium is recognised as a cause of lung cancer and during the Second World War was considered by the Allies as a chemical weapon.
    In another chapter, 'Large Area Coverage Trials', the MoD describes how between 1961 and 1968 more than a million people along the south coast of England, from Torquay to the New Forest, were exposed to bacteria including e.coli and bacillus globigii , which mimics anthrax. These releases came from a military ship, the Icewhale, anchored off the Dorset coast, which sprayed the micro-organisms in a five to 10-mile radius.
    The report also reveals details of the DICE trials in south Dorset between 1971 and 1975. These involved US and UK military scientists spraying into the air massive quantities of serratia marcescens bacteria, with an anthrax simulant and phenol.
    Similar bacteria were released in 'The Sabotage Trials' between 1952 and 1964. These were tests to determine the vulnerability of large government buildings and public transport to attack. In 1956 bacteria were released on the London Underground at lunchtime along the Northern Line between Colliers Wood and Tooting Broadway. The results show that the organism dispersed about 10 miles. Similar tests were conducted in tunnels running under government buildings in Whitehall.
    Experiments conducted between 1964 and 1973 involved attaching germs to the threads of spiders' webs in boxes to test how the germs would survive in different environments. These tests were carried out in a dozen locations across the country, including London's West End, Southampton and Swindon. The report also gives details of more than a dozen smaller field trials between 1968 and 1977.
    In recent years, the MoD has commissioned two scientists to review the safety of these tests. Both reported that there was no risk to public health, although one suggested the elderly or people suffering from breathing illnesses may have been seriously harmed if they inhaled sufficient quantities of micro-organisms.
    However, some families in areas which bore the brunt of the secret tests are convinced the experiments have led to their children suffering birth defects, physical handicaps and learning difficulties.
    David Orman, an army officer from Bournemouth, is demanding a public inquiry. His wife, Janette, was born in East Lulworth in Dorset, close to where many of the trials took place. She had a miscarriage, then gave birth to a son with cerebral palsy. Janette's three sisters, also born in the village while the tests were being carried out, have also given birth to children with unexplained problems, as have a number of their neighbours.
    The local health authority has denied there is a cluster, but Orman believes otherwise. He said: 'I am convinced something terrible has happened. The village was a close-knit community and to have so many birth defects over such a short space of time has to be more than coincidence.'
    Successive governments have tried to keep details of the germ warfare tests secret. While reports of a number of the trials have emerged over the years through the Public Records Office, this latest MoD document - which was released to Liberal Democrat MP Norman Baker - gives the fullest official version of the biological warfare trials yet.
    Baker said: 'I welcome the fact that the Government has finally released this information, but question why it has taken so long. It is unacceptable that the public were treated as guinea pigs without their knowledge, and I want to be sure that the Ministry of Defence's claims that these chemicals and bacteria used were safe is true.'
    The MoD report traces the history of the UK's research into germ warfare since the Second World War when Porton Down produced five million cattle cakes filled with deadly anthrax spores which would have been dropped in Germany to kill their livestock. It also gives details of the infamous anthrax experiments on Gruinard on the Scottish coast which left the island so contaminated it could not be inhabited until the late 1980s.
    The report also confirms the use of anthrax and other deadly germs on tests aboard ships in the Caribbean and off the Scottish coast during the 1950s. The document states: 'Tacit approval for simulant trials where the public might be exposed was strongly influenced by defence security considerations aimed obviously at restricting public knowledge. An important corollary to this was the need to avoid public alarm and disquiet about the vulnerability of the civil population to BW [biological warfare] attack.'
    Sue Ellison, spokeswoman for Porton Down, said: 'Independent reports by eminent scientists have shown there was no danger to public health from these releases which were carried out to protect the public.
    'The results from these trials_ will save lives, should the country or our forces face an attack by chemical and biological weapons.' Asked whether such tests are still being carried out, she said: 'It is not our policy to discuss ongoing research.'
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    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience

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  3. #2
    Elite Member Diablo13's Avatar
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    Re: Millions were in germ war tests

    A very interesting article, which at first glance reads like the work of a conspiracy theorist!
    The sensible side of me would like to disbelieve the entire article because its hard to comprehend why a government of this country would conduct these kind of experiments on its own people?
    However, what is believable is that these kind of experiments go on in mod facilities and that at the time ministers actually believed there was no real threat to public health during wider range testing.
    Just as they believed Thalidomide was safe for pregnant women!

    Is it the stuff of science fiction, or is it science fact, when the Geneva convention outlawed the use of biological weapons donkeys years ago, but we know they still exist?
    The experiments mentioned seem to be well documented and there do seem to be areas of the country more prone to certain diseases and birth defects than others?
    With national outbreaks of Anthrax, BSE, swine flu, bird flu and god knows what else in recent history, with proof that anthrax spores escaped from a secure ministry of defense experimental facility only quite recently, you have to believe that it is at least possible and more than likely probable, that these things happened?
    It is morally reprehensible that any nation would experiment on its own people. It is also hard to see what possible gain they could get from this, as after all they end up picking up the tab for all the sick people turning up at hospitals and gp's surgeries?
    I am not nieve enough to think this couldn't or didn't happen, I just can't either excuse or comprehend WHY it should ever happen?
    One thing is certain, we can trust no one because we actually have even less control of our lives, and deaths, than we even imagined we had!

    Sometimes the actions of others, for whatever reason, really make you feel ashamed to be human!

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  5. #3
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    Re: Millions were in germ war tests

    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Diablo13 Hidden Content
    A very interesting article, which at first glance reads like the work of a conspiracy theorist!
    The sensible side of me would like to disbelieve the entire article because its hard to comprehend why a government of this country would conduct these kind of experiments on its own people?
    However, what is believable is that these kind of experiments go on in mod facilities and that at the time ministers actually believed there was no real threat to public health during wider range testing.
    Just as they believed Thalidomide was safe for pregnant women!

    Is it the stuff of science fiction, or is it science fact, when the Geneva convention outlawed the use of biological weapons donkeys years ago, but we know they still exist?
    The experiments mentioned seem to be well documented and there do seem to be areas of the country more prone to certain diseases and birth defects than others?
    With national outbreaks of Anthrax, BSE, swine flu, bird flu and god knows what else in recent history, with proof that anthrax spores escaped from a secure ministry of defense experimental facility only quite recently, you have to believe that it is at least possible and more than likely probable, that these things happened?
    It is morally reprehensible that any nation would experiment on its own people. It is also hard to see what possible gain they could get from this, as after all they end up picking up the tab for all the sick people turning up at hospitals and gp's surgeries?
    I am not nieve enough to think this couldn't or didn't happen, I just can't either excuse or comprehend WHY it should ever happen?
    One thing is certain, we can trust no one because we actually have even less control of our lives, and deaths, than we even imagined we had!

    Sometimes the actions of others, for whatever reason, really make you feel ashamed to be human!
    The more I read into things these days, the more I find myself listening to, and sometimes even siding with the people I once called lunatics.

    There is no freedom in societies such as ours anymore. I question everything, and believe nothing nowadays.

    Perhaps i'm turning anarchist, but i believe, only YOU know what's best for YOURSELF, and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise does not have your best interests at heart.

    I don't trust the government, police, teachers, doctors, or anyone in a position of authority whereby they can hold you to ransom in one way or another, even if they believe in themselves.

    Depression is everywhere these days. An illness which is born of a lack of (or perceived lack of) control over oneself, one's own life.

    Children are depressed and turning to suicide in greater numbers with every year that goes by. Something isn't right, and it's due to the fact that this place, and places like it, are rotten to the core in my opinion.

    Before long we'll all be depressed. What's the answer. Dope us all up to the eyeballs ?

    None of us have any control over our own lives anymore, and why ?. Because we gave it away for the sake of an easy life.

    Tempted by advertisers, television, and the crooks in charge of producing all the crap we don't need to be happy in life. We've given our freedom to them.

    All the work ethics I had drummed into me as a child makes me sick when I see what's become of everything. I think i've wasted my life working for all the wrong people, and all the wrong things. If i'm honest with myself. I didn't do it for other people, or because i'm a good person. I did it because i'm a coward frightened of ending up on the street, as a tramp, a "doley", a bum, the sort of person i was taught to look down upon.

    Any work is better than no work. That's what i've had drummed into me from day one. But if for one minute i consider things from the perspective of a youngster today starting out in the world, then I can appreciate why some people don't want to work. Some youngsters (and adults) today, even if they work full time, and live modestly, face the prospect of reaching old age with less than their grandparents had, and for what ?

    I personally don't believe children have a happy future here, unless they have their brains removed. Perhaps television has already done that to some.

    Something has to give i think, and it will pretty soon, one way or another.

    Rant over, sorry about that. Feel better now though. Hidden Content .

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  7. #4
    Elite Member Diablo13's Avatar
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    Re: Millions were in germ war tests

    What you are talking about m8 is not anarchy,...........but Paranoia!
    Yes there are many problems the world over beyond our control, they become more highlighted by an over abundance of news reporting.
    Even the news has to sometimes be taken with a pinch of salt because it can be manipulated and slanted to suit the reporting journalists, organizations or countries views. Even in peace time we have propaganda reporting, which in many ways is just a form of advertising?

    The clever propagandists, or anarchists will always be able to show evidence of their way of thinking. Usually because they sound logical, but in most cases just know more about the subject matter than you and so are able to twist your perception of it!
    Freud would have had you believe you had an unhealthy fixation with your mothers nipples, just because you enjoyed licking an ice pop for example!
    It simply wouldn't have occurred to people like him that you just liked the taste, or it cooled you down!
    That's because you can over think some things, in which case you miss the simple obvious truths?

    Life is a long development, built up by many unrelated and complex processes and random time events, over which no one has any control.
    That's just the way it is and it makes living interesting by throwing various challenges at us. Some we succeed at, some we don't.
    People that expound conspiracy theories succeed in making you think like them, so you cease to become your own person with your own original train of thought. They make you in effect a clone of them, so in thinking as they do you become even more helpless, as you are a prisoner of their intent?
    I watched some of the clip you posted about that moron rambling on about David Icke sitting in a Masons chair and it didn't take me long to realize that he was making a huge song and dance about nothing!
    It was simply him reading something sinister into another, well known to be unbalanced man, who most of us rational people completely ignore anyway, sitting in and posing in a posh chair, which frankly could have belonged to anyone!
    You should avoid watching crap like that, it's very bad for your own mental health!

    Use your own thought processes to decide what you believe and don't believe, otherwise you find things which in reality really aren't there, which in turn leads to the aforementioned mistrust and clinically diagnosable paranoia.
    That way leads to isolation, loneliness and even madness!
    If you are prone to believe the rantings of people famous for being outsiders, then you should completely avoid listening to or watching them, otherwise you will become a victim of their madness!
    Hidden Content


    Incidentally we never did have full control of our lives, since time immemorial we have been ruled by circumstances, status and people in power! Anything else was always just an illusion!

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  9. #5
    Member mvemjsunp's Avatar
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    Re: Millions were in germ war tests

    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Diablo13 Hidden Content
    What you are talking about m8 is not anarchy,...........but Paranoia!
    Yes there are many problems the world over beyond our control, they become more highlighted by an over abundance of news reporting.
    Even the news has to sometimes be taken with a pinch of salt because it can be manipulated and slanted to suit the reporting journalists, organizations or countries views. Even in peace time we have propaganda reporting, which in many ways is just a form of advertising?

    The clever propagandists, or anarchists will always be able to show evidence of their way of thinking. Usually because they sound logical, but in most cases just know more about the subject matter than you and so are able to twist your perception of it!
    Freud would have had you believe you had an unhealthy fixation with your mothers nipples, just because you enjoyed licking an ice pop for example!
    It simply wouldn't have occurred to people like him that you just liked the taste, or it cooled you down!
    That's because you can over think some things, in which case you miss the simple obvious truths?

    Life is a long development, built up by many unrelated and complex processes and random time events, over which no one has any control.
    That's just the way it is and it makes living interesting by throwing various challenges at us. Some we succeed at, some we don't.
    People that expound conspiracy theories succeed in making you think like them, so you cease to become your own person with your own original train of thought. They make you in effect a clone of them, so in thinking as they do you become even more helpless, as you are a prisoner of their intent?
    I watched some of the clip you posted about that moron rambling on about David Icke sitting in a Masons chair and it didn't take me long to realize that he was making a huge song and dance about nothing!
    It was simply him reading something sinister into another, well known to be unbalanced man, who most of us rational people completely ignore anyway, sitting in and posing in a posh chair, which frankly could have belonged to anyone!
    You should avoid watching crap like that, it's very bad for your own mental health!

    Use your own thought processes to decide what you believe and don't believe, otherwise you find things which in reality really aren't there, which in turn leads to the aforementioned mistrust and clinically diagnosable paranoia.
    That way leads to isolation, loneliness and even madness!
    If you are prone to believe the rantings of people famous for being outsiders, then you should completely avoid listening to or watching them, otherwise you will become a victim of their madness!
    Hidden Content


    Incidentally we never did have full control of our lives, since time immemorial we have been ruled by circumstances, status and people in power! Anything else was always just an illusion!
    I completely agree with a lot of what you just said Diablo mate.

    When I said I find myself listening to lunatics, I wasn't referring to the fella's videos i posted a link to a while back. I agree, he is absolutely bonkers Hidden Content

    I agree that reaching your own conclusions is paramount in moving through life.

    In a society where people are trained to manipulate, and can make a living out of it easier than ever, i would argue that a little paranoia is normal and healthy, to a point, but that's the very thing someone who is paranoid would say. Hidden Content .

    I suppose it all depends on what you want from life. Hidden Content

    Your correct in saying that we've never had full control of our lives, but that doesn't mean as individuals we shouldn't strive for it, if not for the sake of ourselves but for the sake of the people to come.

    I appreciate that imperfection is part of our condition, but some societies do appear to be more mindful of each other and their actions than societies such as ours.

    It's my personal belief that people are happier, and get along better living simpler lives.

    Everywhere we turn we are driven from everything that makes life worth living, and straight into the cold expensive arms of materialism.

    I don't believe in worldwide conspiracies to control the world or any other far fetched rot, but i do believe your life is your own. If you need a licence to do anything, permission to do everything, and you can't survive of your own volition, without crawling like a dog to a multi-million pound industry, then you have no freedom.

    I resent being told I can't do something, can't go somewhere, and can't have something, that quite frankly, isn't anyone elses business. Having to be part of a database and anything else like that is an indignity to me. Perhaps measures are put in place with the right intentions, but don't some people have a say as to what they should be part of ?

    I've never taken drugs in my life, smoked, or drank. Do i think any of these things should be banned ? No. All that does is open up a gap for profiteering. More often than not by the government themselves, or at least the multi-million pound corporations they do their filthy dealings with.

    I suppose all i'm saying is, I just don't appreciate the measures and steps that are taken on my behalf, behind my back, without my consent, and "for my own good".

    Hitler consolidated his power because of people who "accepted", and put up with life as it was. People who accepted the government was acting "for their own good" by spying on them an taking away their freedom and rights.

    Regardless of your material circumstances. Freedom is only lost once you accept that you shouldn't have it, or let people convince you that you shouldn't have it, and once you do that your already dead.

    Maybe I am Paranoid, but if that's the case, I will be till' the day I die.

    I'm not paranoid Hidden Content .................................Open's curtains slightly............Twitches...................... ........Then crawls back to his corner shivering whilst reaching for his tin foil hat....................Ahhhhhhhhhhhh Safe at last. Hidden Content Hidden Content

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  11. #6
    Elite Member Diablo13's Avatar
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    Re: Millions were in germ war tests

    It sounds like you have your thoughts in a healthy order mv, with a healthy amount of skepticism for the things other people think are "good for us".
    Usually at a cost to us, either in freedom of choice or monetary considerations.

    That's a relief because from the tone of post 3 here I had a fear that you were starting on a slippery slope!
    It's been a while since I discussed a complicated social topic like this with anyone, so I couldn't have you disappearing into your tinfoil hat and living on magic mushrooms, while thinking your posts were being edited by government sponsored earwigs, looking to deport you to Mr Bumbles workhouse as a Soup Dragon!
    Hidden Content

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  13. #7
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    Re: Millions were in germ war tests

    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Diablo13 Hidden Content
    It sounds like you have your thoughts in a healthy order mv, with a healthy amount of skepticism for the things other people think are "good for us".
    Usually at a cost to us, either in freedom of choice or monetary considerations.

    That's a relief because from the tone of post 3 here I had a fear that you were starting on a slippery slope!
    It's been a while since I discussed a complicated social topic like this with anyone, so I couldn't have you disappearing into your tinfoil hat and living on magic mushrooms, while thinking your posts were being edited by government sponsored earwigs, looking to deport you to Mr Bumbles workhouse as a Soup Dragon!
    Hidden Content


    LOLHidden Content

    You're a very intelligent chap Diablo. I enjoy having conversations like this with someone. Hidden Content

    I appreciate you taking the time to read my opinions and give such thoughtful replies.

    Got to go now. There's a car outside with a man in it, I think he's been sent by...........THEM! Hidden Content
    Last edited by mvemjsunp; 24-09-2011 at 10:50 AM.

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