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Hitman
13-10-2006, 06:08 PM
The new laws on electrical work in the home apparently says you cant do your own electrical work in wet areas such as bathroom and kitchen and exterior circuits.

Someone told me recently that your not even allowed to install a new plug socket....is this true

If it is true what is the likely-hood that you will get your self into trouble and if so what kind of nicking would you get???

As a builder i often have to do small electrical jobs and now im supposed to leave well alone but on something simple like a plug socket this is not always convenient.

These laws are bought in for safety i know but arn't they taking it a bit far?

Cheers

stickywicket
13-10-2006, 06:17 PM
i think sockets etc are classed as non-notifiable but like you said bathrooms etc are classed as "special areas"

heres a link so you can read a bit more, however some of this may have changed Building Regulations Part P, Electrical safety in dwellings - The IET (http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/BR-PartP-dwellings.cfm#Q2)

redbarony
13-10-2006, 07:39 PM
you are allowed to replace existing wiring,sockets etc i suppose it would be down to proving there wasnt anything there before

but when we had our extension built,the builder had to call in a spark to connect up the pre-wiring he had done in the bog lights/switches and extractor and certify it.

even the father inlaw cant touch it and hes been a spark all his life but he not got this cirtificate

load of bollocks if you ask me as long as you are competent you should be able to do any diy on your own property-me personally i dont like gas and water.

next the plumbers will be doing the same as you never know when that drippy tap could cause your house to implode!

Hitman
13-10-2006, 09:00 PM
Think im an electrical outlaw....im gonna just ignore it.

Soon we wont be able to do anything and ill have to give up my business.
I am very compitent with electrics and if im not sure about something i find out....thats good enough for me.

If i have to get nicked doing my job then so be it.
Maybe i should give up my job and start robbing banks...much safer lol

Ps: Got any red and black twin and earth?

Rezon8
15-10-2006, 04:33 PM
who'd find out though ...

stickywicket
15-10-2006, 11:45 PM
ever go to sell your house an a surveyor asks who carried out the work on your electrics, guess what, you got a problem.

notanotherone
16-10-2006, 02:44 AM
i just replaced my bathroom lights ,all i did was replace the ones that were allready there and i asked help from here lol all the rewiring was done about 5 years ago cant see me moving unless its in a shroud so dont care about it jobs a good un lol

Hitman
16-10-2006, 08:10 PM
Well thats where the good old red and black cable comes in if you can find any!!!

suby786
19-10-2006, 07:19 PM
yeh you cant do loads of things now, meaning for those who have electricain as a carerr are going to be makin more money.. i know some people that charge ?50 per plug installed man... its insane

im doing an electronic engineering degree and im thinking of learning that trade..cant go wrong but some responsibility there though

dharock
19-10-2006, 07:48 PM
as long as you don't use the new cable i don't see how they can know it has not been done before the new laws come in to place

scruff1963
22-10-2006, 08:39 AM
yeh you cant do loads of things now, meaning for those who have electricain as a carerr are going to be makin more money.. i know some people that charge ?50 per plug installed man... its insane
im doing an electronic engineering degree and im thinking of learning that trade..cant go wrong but some responsibility there though

I'm newly qualified and can't even find work.

I start tomorrow as a fork lift driver so I wouldn't listen to to much of what you hear down the pub about prices charged and how lucrative it is.

If you think it's such a money earner do the course here Total Electrical (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. what with the months lost work while I was on the course, travelling and digs it set me back about 6 grand. Then you have to pay ?100's every year to join a body so you can certify the work.

flyer1
28-10-2006, 09:00 PM
had my kitchin done trecently and had to pay a bloke ?75 for certificate to say was gas was done properly , in my trade had to go back to collage at 46 to do a nvq 1-3 and pay nearly 2 grand for our cscs cards ripe off

IceRhine
14-11-2006, 01:04 AM
Think ill ignore too, not like they could prove i electrocuted anyone is it....

Hitman
14-11-2006, 10:12 PM
As with many things in this country..its all a big fat load of bull****e designed to take your money and control you.....F_ck em!!!

boabsmith
17-11-2006, 02:36 PM
a lot of rubbish that law

If your competant at doing it there should be no problem

didsss
17-11-2006, 03:58 PM
This new electrical installaion law is a big con it pretty much means the only thing you can do without a qualified electricain is put a plug on a cable although you can do anything else you like but you would have to commision a qualified sparky to sign it off and carry out the final connection.
They also have differing levels of qualification which enable different levels of service, you could take a night school course & become qualified to inspect & sign off/reject DIY.
If you fail to comply upon sale of property this could work against you as a full inspection would be required and you have to diclare it along with a whole raft of other crxp. Also with the introduction of the home selle kits this would compound the issue.
Don't make a mistake that me neighbour did!! New house all harmonised cabling Blue/Brown. Put in old Red/Black for loads of extension sockets, got divorced flogged house and was charged a further ?500 for assement & replacement as he sold 3months after the transition period ended.

daveqpr
26-11-2006, 06:52 PM
As a sparks for 20 years- i have re wired about 3-400 houses! due to not being in the game for the last 8 years i havent now got the new certificate. This means that in theory i cant re wire my own house and have to get someone in to certify any work.
My mate has just got his part p after spending the last 2 months on a crash course - he was a cable guy before. Technically he is more qualified than me in the eyes of the law

jakebt123
28-11-2006, 04:01 AM
you are allowed to replace existing wiring,sockets etc i suppose it would be down to proving there wasnt anything there before

but when we had our extension built,the builder had to call in a spark to connect up the pre-wiring he had done in the bog lights/switches and extractor and certify it.

even the father inlaw cant touch it and hes been a spark all his life but he not got this cirtificate

load of bollocks if you ask me as long as you are competent you should be able to do any diy on your own property-me personally i dont like gas and water.

next the plumbers will be doing the same as you never know when that drippy tap could cause your house to implode!

have to agree with you , most of the older sparks dont have certifictes cos they didnt exist when they where serving their time , best bet is if your wiring your own home just do it and let it be a case of "it wasnt me a big boy did it and ran away

gaz
29-11-2006, 12:13 AM
As a sparks for 20 years- i have re wired about 3-400 houses! due to not being in the game for the last 8 years i havent now got the new certificate. This means that in theory i cant re wire my own house and have to get someone in to certify any work.
My mate has just got his part p after spending the last 2 months on a crash course - he was a cable guy before. Technically he is more qualified than me in the eyes of the law
Hi
Any ideas where your mate went for this crash course???

daveqpr
04-12-2006, 08:32 PM
he got it through his current company , so its not a public course as such

andywebmail
09-12-2006, 12:23 PM
All Electrical accesories (power outlets,switches ect) have a new mark which identifies them as being post "part p" so just using "old cable" will not hide new work. if you have an electrical fire and do not have at the very least a minor works certificate relating to that part of the installation you may find your house insurance void and be liable for prosecution.
From the 1st January 2005 all electrical work in dwellings will need to comply with Part P (Electrical Safety) of the Building Regulations. Therefore if you want to carry out electrical work you must either: -
Use an electrician or contractor who is a member of the 'Competent Persons Scheme'. i.e. they must be registered with an approved body to carry out the work involved.
The electrician/contractor must ensure that the electrical work is designed, installed, inspected and tested in accordance with BS7671. Upon completion of the work you should receive a duly completed Electrical Installation Certificate from the installer, a copy of this certificate should be provided to the Local Authority not less than 5 days before occupation/completion. If there is no other work involved, you do not need to do anything further, however if the work is done in association with other building work (such as an extension or alteration), please note the following.
A Completion Certificate will not be issued by the Local Authority for the complete building works (including the electrical work), until the Building Control Surveyor is satisfied that all the work is in accordance with Building Regulations, and the appropriate electrical safety certificate has been issued by a person competent to do so.
Alternatively you can use an electrician or contractor who is not a member of the 'Competent Person Scheme' however the Local Authority is required to engage the services of a 'Competent Person' to inspect and certify that the electrical installation is in accordance with BS7671. A fee based upon the estimated cost of the work (please refer to the Fee Calculator in the Downloads section) is payable to the Local Authority to inspect and certify electrical installations.
N.B. You must notify the Local Authority at the first fix electrical stage, failure to do so will require work to be opened up later to ascertain compliance.
In addition to this work not in accordance with Building Regulations and/or failure to give the correct notices to the Local Authority; are contraventions of the regulations and may make you liable for prosecution and upon summary conviction you may be liable to maximum fines of 5000gbp per offence.
Non-Notifiable Work
All new electrical work in dwellings needs to comply with Part P of the Building Regulations, however certain works do not require notification to the local authority.
How will the DIY enthusiast be affected?
The impact on DIY enthusiasts making improvements will depend on the type of electrical work involved and its location within the home. It is recommended that consumers wanting to undertake work which requires certification (see guidance note below), such as the installation of new showers or cookers, should employ a firm registered as a 'Competent Person' who can self-certify their work to the Local Authority Building Control department. Consumers will still be able to undertake certain minor electrical work - such as replacement of accessories along the lines of socket outlets, control switches and ceiling roses - without notifying Building Control. If you are unsure about this, please contact us to establish what (if anything) you need to do.
Changes affecting buyers and sellers of the property?
Section P of the Building Regulations will be particularly relevant to homeowners after the introduction of the Home Information Pack in 2006. Among other documents, the pack will be required to include certain certificates and guarantees for work carried out to the property. The homeowner will have to ensure that electrical work carried out in the home after January 1st 2005, complies with the Building Regulations and the simplest way of achieving this will be to employ a firm who are registered as a 'Competent Person' to undertake that work.

borosmoggy
09-12-2006, 04:21 PM
Just another way to screw as much money out of you as possible same as Corgi registered engineers it dont mean a lot just a certificate that means they can charge you lots of money . There are many people that have been doing electric work for years and know more about it than any qualified electrician and never needed a certificate i will carry on doing my own i think i mean who will know anyway they cant prove you have put your own light up or switch on can they what will they think of next maybe we will need a certificate for putting a shelf up just incase it falls on someones head eh .

sedate2
26-12-2006, 03:00 PM
I had an extension built starting last year around jan 2005, but then was quite poorly with cancer, and have not been able to do much since in terms of chasing the council for a certificate. The builders were polish and did the wiring. The work was done and checked each stage via the councils building inspector...except the wiring.The only problem is that now i cant get a completions certificate from the council because i dont have a wiring certificate...and I cant get hold of the builders anymore. I called a sparky in and he just said he could not do anything- I even said to him I would pay him to do a check and fix anything required so I can get a certiifcate- but he said it does not work like that ..is that true?

dx100-uk
26-12-2006, 04:00 PM
yes
the wirer cannot be the certifiyer.

phone a reputeable installations company & tell them what you need done
it should not be too expensive.
if oyu are lucky, the council can send their own cert person round which will be cheaper. just sweet talk them, but the job must be completed first.

dx100uk
/:)

sedate2
26-12-2006, 05:07 PM
Thanks mate..just one other thing...the sparky said that there was no way I could get a certificate..apparently when the install starts they have to log it with someone, which gives them a ref number or something and then when the job is finished, they give the ref number and can then issue a electirical certificate...is that right?

Thanks for your help.

dx100-uk
26-12-2006, 05:58 PM
not really no
thats how it happens in an ideal world
but more often, its goes the way yours has gone.
the work is done by whoever, then its inspected.

all you need to do is contact a good firm & tell them you have had the works done & to comply with the p regs, you need it certified issued.

they might do it themselves as most large firms have p reg certifyer on the team o r they might refer you to another branch or firm.

its a simple process as such, mainly a few tests, bonding inspection, earth leakage, earth impedence etc.

a good co. should have it done in less than an hour if the area is not too large.

dx100uk:|

suke
27-12-2006, 08:51 PM
Did you apply for planning permission as regards the extension. If you did, it would mean that the electrics would also be covered by the councils building control and as such they should provide you with the necessary documents!

steven
30-12-2006, 09:44 PM
well i had all my electrics checked and the electrition said that non of my plugs was safe he said that my sockets should have switches on because thats the new law so if any1 could help me on that thanks.

dx100-uk
30-12-2006, 11:01 PM
yep
unswitched 13A mains outlets are now not allowed in most domestic applications.
how can we help:confused:
other than go get the correctones, there cheap as chips.

:| dx100uk

Hitman
30-12-2006, 11:30 PM
I have built an extension on my house and upstairs i have put extra load on the 1mm cable from chandelier lights/spotlights/extractor fan.

Does anyone know if i need to upgrade the cable to 1.5 or is it ok as long as it has the correct fuse rating for the wire?

Thanks

dx100-uk
31-12-2006, 01:31 AM
how long is a piece of string:(

it all depends on what load there is already there on the circuit
and
what the extra load [wattage] your chandelier lights/spotlights/extractor fan take.

You need to be doing some calculations using ohms law etc to work this out.

a fuse will not protect the wiring nor stop it getting hot:"v

this is exactly why the new laws were brought in.

however,
your lighting circuit 'should' be protected by circuit breakers, if your house installation is not too old, so some degree of protection is there already, as such.

Your lighting circuit will, or should, be a ring. what you need to do is note the wattage of every lamp/device on that circuit, including all the lamps on your chand & all the spots & the wattage of the fan, add them all together to get a total, them look up on a regs site what a 1mm ring can take.

ofcourse a much simpler way is to get a qualified electrician in to do if for you and issue a certificate.

insurance co. are now getting very hot on not paying out on claims where householders have done DIY and not had the installations certified should anything untoward happen.

let just put it this way:
how many people have a 13A fuse protecting a string ofXmas tree lights........:oops: the wire will burn out before that fuse will blow!
you are responsible for this, if it catches firw & they do an investigation ....they will not pay out.

just as an example.

dx100uk:bomb:

Hitman
03-01-2007, 12:12 AM
Thanks for the info.

I do have circuit breakers on the consumer unit.

so you think that having the correct rating on the breaker will not stop the cable getting hot?

Only i always thought that thats what fuses and breakers were for.....to stop you overloading the cable.

Also i have never seen a lighting circuit on a domestic building on a ring .....only the plug sockets.

Do these now have to be on a ring as part of the new part p bull?

Regards

dx100-uk
03-01-2007, 01:24 AM
no sorry though it was late, :withstupid:
lights do not need to be ringed.

i much prefer breakers to fuses, seen some really nasty things over the last 30 odd yrs.

this site has some useful info on most of what you need to know.

Understanding domestic electric lighting circuits (UK) (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. dx100uk [after yet another 16hrs shift :bedtime:

kamrez224
31-01-2007, 04:34 PM
i want to put extractor fan in the cellar ,are they easy to fit

dx100-uk
31-01-2007, 05:25 PM
hardest part is making the large hole in an external leading wall!!

there are even low voltage ones now too. [which i would recommend]

dx100uk:goodnight:

taggarts
22-02-2007, 09:27 PM
it is true, and any electric work you do in your house, has to be checked by electrican,

dx100-uk
23-02-2007, 02:19 AM
regardless of the p regs thats a good idea anyhow:)) .
there is a link to the new regs above in the thread
i suggest you have a read.


what are you doing more's the point?

dx100uk:x