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fatchap
22-06-2006, 10:37 PM
When you tell your company that you no longer want their services, sometimes they will only send a control signal to your existing box to tell it not to work.
Sometimes they can't be bothered with the expense required to send someone around to physically disconnect your line.
So next time you are around a friends who previously cancelled their tv services, take your dbox2 and let them watch a bit of sky sports for the small cost of supplying you with beer for the whole night.

Scotster
22-06-2006, 10:41 PM
Yeah but you can get caught that way ;)

Would need to be extremely unlucky but its possible.

Anyway, i don't believe in free cable. I feel that everyone should at least pay the minimum package price. Cable is seriously overpriced but as long as i am paying and getting value for money i will continue to do so.

Scott =op

bobsylas
22-06-2006, 10:50 PM
Yeah but you can get caught that way ;)
Would need to be extremely unlucky but its possible.
Anyway, i don't believe in free cable. I feel that everyone should at least pay the minimum package price. Cable is seriously overpriced but as long as i am paying and getting value for money i will continue to do so.
Scott =op

hi i also pay the minimum price but how would you get caught?

Scotster
22-06-2006, 10:54 PM
Because if you don't have any services yet you hook up a box there will be a voltage drop on the box outside telling them that you have a live signal in your home.

I know that they can check this remotely but you would need to be hell of unlucky for them to pinpoint you

Scott =op

fatchap
22-06-2006, 11:07 PM
You'd have to be hell of an unlucky for your mate to have someone spot check his voltage on the night you're there. :)
As a matter of interest, what is the voltage level we are talking about going to drop from and to? If you had no dbox 2, and your signal cable inside the house had been shorted somehow (or buried / taken to gnd), would that imply you might get a knock on the door from your old service provider as well?

Scotster
22-06-2006, 11:11 PM
Its more a case of an open circuit and a closed circuit. When a box is plugged in the signal will be live and measurable, when its not, it won't.

But yes your spot on, it would be hell of unlucky. It is however not a risk i am willing to take and also as i said i don't mind paying a bit of dough.

Scott =op

steve07951
22-06-2006, 11:12 PM
what about if you have broadband and no tv packace

fatchap
22-06-2006, 11:12 PM
I know i'm sounding thick here as well... but how can they check remotely that you have a voltage drop or not? That would imply they have some form of remote reporting voltmeter connected to your junction box? Can you elaborate please?

renwich
22-06-2006, 11:15 PM
Lets not go there guy's, theres always a chance of getting caught,

Scotster
22-06-2006, 11:16 PM
Ok, a signal box has x amount of connections. When a box is plugged in the connection will be live. When there is a problem with a signal box you phone up and the operator says "theres a problem with the signal box". If thats not the case they can tell if your voltage level is high or low. How they know i don't know, i am not a cable engineer i just know through phoning up with various problems the kind of information they can get. They can't change the signal levels remotely, i know that because they have to send out an engineer, but i know they can check it. If you have 2 boxes on there the signal to your house will need a little boosting to take care of it. If your only meant to have a modem then u sucking in twice the signal would be a bit suspect if they checked. Thats not half as suspicious as having no subscriptions yet having a live signal going into your house.

If you have broadband and no tv package you are probably less likely to get caught and they are probably less likely to try to catch you as they are getting cash off you anyway. Its the total free loaders they will want to catch first. Saying that though it would still be possible to tell the difference between 2 things sucking down a signal and 1 thing.

Scott =op

fatchap
22-06-2006, 11:25 PM
aah, i think i might be able to explain this one:
When you ring up they can 'probably' send your box ( unique address ) a control signal along the lines of 'are you there?' (a bit like when you ping a computer) If box is connected then answer = yes, if not then there is a problem with signal box.
If they wrote clever firmware in your decoder box, they can also send a message to your box asking it to respond with info on what its signal to noise level currently is as well... or probably some other status info as well, hence you can tell if voltage levels are high or low.

fergalsworld
22-06-2006, 11:30 PM
The only way they would be able to know is by measuring the snr on your feed
manually ie: a engineer measuring your feed line in the green box at the end of your road they cannot do it remotely.

That said if everyone had that train of thought it would go the same way as ondigital.
pay a subscription even if its only the minimum one.

Scotster
22-06-2006, 11:32 PM
Yes, but, they can also send a signal to the box outside your house.

Think about it this way, when they are testing do you think they test every box? Of course not. They test all of the external boxes for each area.

Your right in saying that they can ping your box but thats got nothing to do with the external voltage levels. All they can get from that is what your little box outside your house is putting into the cable box inside. They check both to make sure the signal isn't deteriorating.

Trust me, there is a lot more to it than you think there is. If an engineer came out and plugged his laptop into his external box he would know straight away something fishy was going on. Especially with the people who are paying for 2 items yet have 4 connected etc.

Scott =op

fatchap
22-06-2006, 11:45 PM
Ok, i accept what your saying.
However, i'm still not fully understanding how the snr on your feed will indicate there is a load on the end or not, (if you could elaborate that would be helpful).

Pay the minimum subscription... ok, i'm not in disagreement with that either.

One thing that does strike me though... i'd be pretty sure that any digital box provided by a service provider must be able to provide status information to big brother. (as mentioned in earlier reply)
If you disconnect your existing box, and plug in a dbox2 to the line... you now have no feedback to big brother.
Say i was big brother.... i'd write some simple sw to 'highlight' those addresses whose boxes no longer provided status feedback to me, as they are pretty suspicious don't you think?

If my thinking was right, then i'd suggest the safest way to remain hidden is to have a splitter cable on your feed, and leave your existing box connected as well as a dbox2.

fergalsworld
23-06-2006, 12:06 AM
snr=signal to noise ratio which they can only measure manually from the green box.
to implement any kind of change or switch to a different software would cost to much they do not have the funds to do this.

If you unplug it and put a dbox on then 6 months down the line
it goes tits up so you plug there one back in and it dont work properly.
so you ring them up remember all there own boxes have talkback the first thing it does when you switch it on is say "hello im here" to them so they would know it has not been on for that time.
always use a splitter and have both connected.

fatchap
23-06-2006, 12:24 AM
I'd expect it would be less than 2 days work to have the central big brother sw keep a database list / produce reports on those boxes that havn't talked back in greater than x days, (after all its only a few lines of sql extra) so i wouldn't guarantee they aren't watching or keeping tabs. But then thats me... i'm a suspicious git and its just what i'd do. :)

Also, i know what snr is, but how will having a load present on the line alter it? If you looked at a reflected signal (ie S11), you'd be able to tell that there was a load on the end, & that i can picture / understand, but the snr doesn't quite make sense to me?

fatchap
23-06-2006, 12:50 PM
Ah, i think its even simpler than that... if they measured the resistance at your terminal box and get open circuit... nothing is connected... 75 ohms indicates you have someting sat on the end of the cable.

chrisgill244
23-06-2006, 01:12 PM
Yes but that could also mean that you have got a short on the cable, I can't see how they are going to see anything without talkback? I mean you could have redecorated chopped the cable off , not made the end ansd just pushed it back in the hole and papered over it. could it not??

Scotster
23-06-2006, 05:09 PM
No because when the cable isn't connected to anything its an open circuit the same as when its chopped off. What fatchap said is correct, if they measure the resistance of the line and find its minimal that means that something is connected completing the circuit (ie a dbox2). If its not connected the resistance will be infinity.

Scott =op

chrisgill244
23-06-2006, 05:16 PM
How do you measure the resistance on the line, compared to what, do you measure it to ground or do you measure the outer sheath to the inner core??

Scotster
23-06-2006, 05:52 PM
Outer sheath to inner core altho i think the outer is grounded any way.

Scott =op

chrisgill244
23-06-2006, 06:22 PM
so if the outer sheath is grounded or even if you disconnect and meter out the cable then if a stary strand from your outer or even the plaster in your wall if it is damp can give a closed circuit.

Scotster
23-06-2006, 06:26 PM
Well i guess it could yeah. Whats your point though? If this was the case i am pretty sure they would investigate it further regardles whether it was accidental or a dbox.

Scott =op

chrisgill244
23-06-2006, 06:35 PM
my point is that most of the time the engineers can't even complete the allocated jobs in a day nevermind looking for feed that have inactive of months that suddenly become active just as the engineer is sat at the panel, he is more likely to not be intrested in anything else then the job he has got to do, thus if fatchap wants to go round to his mates house and plug in for the night he would have to be the most unlucky person on this planet to get caught, although I do not condone not paying the minimum amount.

Scotster
23-06-2006, 07:18 PM
Not saying they would will or do i'm simply saying they could.

Chance i aint willing to take for the sake of a few bob.

Scott =op

bhoy100
25-06-2006, 10:56 AM
I have a min contract at home but at my place of work there was a n old connection going way back that hadn't been used in years, I plugged my dbox2 into it and got connected no problems, my work is frequented by dozens of TW engineers who are well aware the connection is not totally legit in fact many have asked where to get a dbox2, they work for contracters and not TW directly and unless told to specifically do a job, ie test and disconnect lines, have no interest in a dbox2 getting a feed.:) :)

royston7777
21-07-2006, 09:17 AM
i have telephone broadband and now the select package 3 services for £30, good deal

johnf1950
21-07-2006, 09:54 AM
I disconnected my digital box a couple of years ago whilst decorating, and did not bother to re-connect, as I had a "modified" analogue box, N** phoned me up and asked me why it was not connected!! I explained that I had been decorating and re-connected the next day.

The best long term solution is to get your cable provider to install a second connection in another room, connect their box in that room and your D-box in your main room. You do not have to be worried about a visit from your cable provider in that case, as they just go to the other room with their box in. I have the N** box in my office, connected for broadband and as a Freeview box with minimum channels. I have had a couple of cable company visits since, to upgrade boxes, and have never had to disconnected anything in my main room, as they are just directed to the room with their box is in.

You can even install a link from your main room to the other room so you can watch the channel selected on your D-Box there.

Alternatively, you could split the incoming cable signal yourself to provide a supply to your other room. However, I'm sure a cable company engineer would only want to work with their own connections.