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View Full Version : old firm in the premiership



mickybhoy1888
03-03-2007, 03:20 PM
does any1 else think that both celtic and rangers will be able to hold their own in the premiership and maybe even win the title in a few years with all the cash they will get

countryboy
03-03-2007, 03:33 PM
m8 within 5 years celtic and rangers would be the dominate forces in the premiership
feck we would need to build 120,000 seater stadiums
if we can get 60,000 for a game against motherwell what would we get against man u chelsea and the smaller teams like liverpool

BLACKJACK
03-03-2007, 03:51 PM
I think celtic and rangers would do very well in the premership with all the money they would get but i do not think the english clubs would want us not the lower 1's at the bottom of the league anyway.They would be to scare to lose their money if they went down because we took their place.

mcfisco
03-03-2007, 06:51 PM
Why would the Premier League want to bring all that sectarianism & bigotry into their league?

besides, the weather is always crap up there ;o)

kryten77
04-03-2007, 02:12 PM
For the first few seasons in the Premiership I think they would both struggle a bit. they dont have the depth of squad needed for the Premiership. If they both survived the initial two/three year period of struggle then I think they could hold their own. Both of them have ground capacity in excess of most of the premiership and the money earned through TV rights would take them onto the same sort of financial plane as teams other than Liverpool( new billionaire owners), Man Utd ( American guy who borrowed millions on the strength of their name) and Chelsea ( Russian "alleged" gangsta owner).
However here is where the whole notion of them playing in the Premiership falls flat on its face.
For them to play in the English leagues do they not have to come up through the other leagues first. Can you honestly see them agreeing to that ??

mouleetfrite
05-03-2007, 02:18 PM
If they were placed in Division 1 or 2 then managed to get into the premiership which I doubt they could do then good luck to them but as to placing them in there as a right no way........

gravitythedon
10-03-2007, 02:31 PM
I think they would both get relegated in their first season, and then probably relegated into League one after that.

y2krog2000
10-03-2007, 03:07 PM
Rangers and Celtic would do O.K. in the premiership every year even Rangers would be in the top 10 this year and they had one of their worst ever spells, but I dont think they would have a lot of catching up to do to be anywhere near as good as the top 5 premiership clubs.

Timoweb
10-03-2007, 03:12 PM
I would like to see them in the English premier league but would have to earn the right by playing in the championship first.

Don't you think the SPL would collapse if the big two left?

andyboyrfc
12-03-2007, 08:36 PM
a would love it to happen as the prem is onlt a 3 team legue if u look at who has won it since blackburn did and how long ago was that. but heres hoping we get ther 1 day but a just dont think it will ever happin :tv:

y2krog2000
13-03-2007, 08:07 AM
Don't you think the SPL would collapse if the big two left?

I dont think it would collapse but I do think that the other clubs would be better of without Rangers and Celtic in the long run.

I couldnt see Rangers or Celtic competing with Man utd, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal anytime soon they dont have the tallent or the squad to play teams of this quality every week.

DanielHarvey
13-03-2007, 12:48 PM
I think after a couple of years the 2 of them would be competing with the top 3 but it will never happen as none of the teams in the bottom half of the Premiership team would to agree to risk there premiership status by allowing them in.

Shipoftheline
13-03-2007, 12:55 PM
Celtic and Rangers are used to playing 8 what would be Division 1 & 2 teams (English leagues) in the SPL so they'd be in for a huge shock in the EPL


m8 within 5 years celtic and rangers would be the dominate forces in the premiership


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Again the EPL isn't a walkover like the SPL with the 8 also rans as competition year on year

DanMB
13-03-2007, 02:15 PM
:o i rember this bought up years ago. Does anyone thing they'll actually get in the premiership realistically.

chewinmafat
17-03-2007, 05:32 PM
will never happen.. can't see teams like bolton, charlton, and watford etc chairman voting for this

countryboy
17-03-2007, 11:20 PM
I think they would both get relegated in their first season, and then probably relegated into League one after that.



your having a laugh

jreynolds
18-03-2007, 02:28 PM
Celtic and Rangers are used to playing 8 what would be Division 1 & 2 teams (English leagues) in the SPL so they'd be in for a huge shock in the EPL
Again the EPL isn't a walkover like the SPL with the 8 also rans as competition year on year
Lol, are you serious? I'm the first to admit that Scottish football isn't of a high standard but the leagues are the same in that only 2 teams (ok, three in England) have any hope of wining the title. Arsenal are currently 14 points behind 2nd placed Chelsea.
And I think both teams would cope in the Premiership as Celtic in particular have shown over the last number of years in Europe that they can more than hold their own against teams in England.
But as others have said there is no way its going to happen as lower table clubs won't want their position threatened (quite rightly too). So the only way would be to start at Division 3 and work their way up but how any of the Old Firms best players are going to hang around for that!
Oh and btw, there are 10 also rans in the SPL, not 8 ;)

Shipoftheline
18-03-2007, 04:35 PM
Lol, are you serious?

Yes very :)

krazylegz
19-03-2007, 02:40 AM
i wold like to see them in but they'd have to start off in the championship.

i could also only see them as mid-tableish teams as already stated the prem isa much harder league than the SPL and for them to compete at the highest standard evey week would be very hard for them

mickyrobbo
19-03-2007, 01:51 PM
Watched the game yesterday and sorry to say falkirk would do better in the premier going by yesterday,s result,they would do better than the bhoys on that performance,


Watched the game yesterday and sorry to say falkirk would do better in the premier going by yesterday,s result,they would do better than the bhoys on that performance,
sorry to say but neil lemmon he should be called

chewinmafat
19-03-2007, 08:28 PM
think thats only fair that they start off in the championship... one point worth remebering is the scottish league champions this year get the grand sum of 1.5million while whoever finished bottom in the premiership get 30 million... both old firms teams have over 50,000 season ticket holders with waiting lists..how many teams outwith the top 4 in the premiership could beat this attendance.... and why is neil lennon the scapecoat when celtic get beat...there is 11 players in the team.....

Shipoftheline
20-03-2007, 08:50 AM
So they should start in the championship just because the two teams have alot of support in Scotland ?

I'm going right off them getting in the EPL now


both old firms teams have over 50,000 season ticket holders with waiting lists..how many teams outwith the top 4 in the premiership could beat this attendance.... and why is neil lennon the scapecoat when celtic get beat...there is 11 players in the team.....


No need for them to leave such a great league then ;)

y2krog2000
20-03-2007, 09:08 AM
think thats only fair that they start off in the championship... one point worth remebering is the scottish league champions this year get the grand sum of 1.5million while whoever finished bottom in the premiership get 30 million... both old firms teams have over 50,000 season ticket holders with waiting lists..how many teams outwith the top 4 in the premiership could beat this attendance.... and why is neil lennon the scapecoat when celtic get beat...there is 11 players in the team.....
Most of the clubs in the English premiership are in debt "think it was arround 65% of them" this is one of the reasons why some English clubs were considering ground sharing with their rivals. If Rangers and Celtic have 50,000 season ticket holders as you say "was only 25,000 when I went to Rangers matches a couple of years ago" then its their own fault that Rangers are in debt and Celtic supporters cant keep complaining about English clubs having more money, Celtic have the 3rd richest football club owner in Britain.

DanielHarvey
20-03-2007, 09:23 AM
So they should start in the championship just because the two teams have alot of support in Scotland ?

I agree with you Ship. I'm a gers fan but just because we have a large support base does not mean they should be able to skip leagues.

If this was ever to happen it would only be rightthat we start from the bottom & work our way up however I don't see it ever happening.

jreynolds
21-03-2007, 12:42 PM
Yeah Ship, you're right, as Daniel says we can hardly expect to get into the Championship just becuase of good attendances. Would have to work our way up from the bottom.
But the Old Firm joining could generate even more cash down South because of the interest in both teams. To start with, both clubs have a huge world wide fan base. Even at away games fans woud sit in the home section just to see them I'm sure.
And Y2k your right, the Gers have only themselves to blame for being in debt and Celtic should have a lot more money being pumped into them, but it doesn't mean Celtic fans can't complain about the lack of cash. No offense meant, but mediocre clubs like Fulham and Man City get an incredibly large amount of income from TV revenue when their clubs aren't half as well supported as the Old Firm.
We get sell outs every single week to watch teams like Dunfermline! I hugely doubt thats the case for the smaller teams in the EPL even if playing Man U or Chelsea. It just doesn't seem quite fair. But I suppose thats just your luck, you gotta get on with it.

y2krog2000
21-03-2007, 12:51 PM
but it doesn't mean Celtic fans can't complain about the lack of cash. No offense meant,
No offence taken but if it wasnt money Celtic were complaining about they would find something else. English clubs get more money than the SPL teams because people around the world dont mind paying to watch English clubs on the tv because it is top quality football no matter what team is playing but in Scotland the only match worth watching is the auld firm.

mburns
21-03-2007, 04:16 PM
Even tho i am a celtic fan i agree, the quality of football up here is rough, its all slide tackles or rugby tackles lol

But showing celtic performance againt man utd this season is a good enough shout for both teams to play down south.

Mick

Shipoftheline
21-03-2007, 04:45 PM
But showing celtic performance againt man utd this season is a good enough shout for both teams to play down south.

Mick

Thats the problem mburns you'd have to play at that level every week. I remember when Roy Keane came to Manchester United and said "every game is like an FA cup final"

jreynolds
21-03-2007, 05:08 PM
people around the world dont mind paying to watch English clubs on the tv because it is top quality football no matter what team is playing
In general English football is of a far better standard than the Scottish game, no argument there, but I don't agree that every game in the EPL is top quality - a lot of mid and lower table teams are dire to watch. Then there is a team like Bolton who are doing well not because of great football but because of good organisation and basically hacking other teams of the park! Even big games often don't live up to the build up these days.
And I'm not arguing that every team in the SPL should get paid the same amount of cash as English teams, just that the Old Firm are big enough and good enough to earn more. If they left though the SPL would die a death.
Ship, I think both teams would relish the chance to play against better opposition every week. They are expected to win every game every week even if its in Europe! Every team is desperate to beat you so most games go 100mph. I'm sure they could handle the pressure of playing the big games all the time.

y2krog2000
21-03-2007, 05:28 PM
but I don't agree that every game in the EPL is top quality - a lot of mid and lower table teams are dire to watch.
I watch match of the day every sunday morning and there is never a bad game on it and they dont just pick out the good games to watch . I support Rangers and admit that they are years away from being as good as any of the top English clubs but I do hope they join the English league and get the money they will deserve if they can proove themselves but they should'nt get that sort of money now for playing against the crap teams in the SPL, some of the teams that beat Rangers this year would struggle in the English 2nd division.

mickyrobbo
21-03-2007, 06:34 PM
think thats only fair that they start off in the championship... one point worth remebering is the scottish league champions this year get the grand sum of 1.5million while whoever finished bottom in the premiership get 30 million... both old firms teams have over 50,000 season ticket holders with waiting lists..how many teams outwith the top 4 in the premiership could beat this attendance.... and why is neil lennon the scapecoat when celtic get beat...there is 11 players in the team.....
Because he is to fat,and past it now although he was not bad for a weeeeeeeee while,and any way my 12 year old would get to the end of the pitch before him,

jreynolds
21-03-2007, 08:29 PM
I watch match of the day every sunday morning and there is never a bad game on it and they dont just pick out the good games to watch.
Yeah but they only show you the highlights, the best bits of the game! You could probably make Dundee vs Livi look good if you did that :) Ok, maybe thats pushing things lol. But when I watch entire games involving lower table teams I tend to get bored very, very quickly.
And your right, the Old Firm shouldn't get paid loadsa money for playing crappy teams but I think they deserve a chance to earn it by playing better teams ie Premiership. But then again the TV money inolved in general is ridiculous. If Celtic were offered it though I wouldn't be complaining ;)

Shipoftheline
21-03-2007, 11:51 PM
Look I'm sorry for being honest but someone has to say it so here goes. The Scottish League has TWO teams and they are Celtic and Rangers, and without those two teams they wouldn't get what they do today(scottish league). Both teams would like to get into the English Premier league because they want the rewards of what the other big teams get BUT they are not used to playing high class football day in each week like the English premiership for obvious reasons. I'm sorry if people don't agree with this but sit back and think about it

jreynolds
22-03-2007, 01:11 AM
I'm sorry if people don't agree with this but sit back and think about it
No need to be sorry, its the truth, the only good teams in the SPL are Celtic and Rangers :) There are some promising teams though like Hibs. But then I have to be sorry to say that I feel some people certainly overrate the quality of the Premiership. Its been talked up so much a lot of people are starting to believe the hype.

Some great teams there but I can't agree that there is top quality the whole way through the league. I'm not saying the Old Firm would even be in the top 6 say, but teams like Wigan, Man City, Villa - they aren't great quality. I think its a bit unfair to say they wouldn't do well just because of their current opposition.

y2krog2000
22-03-2007, 07:57 AM
The question you are asking about Rangers and Celtic joining the English premier league is a bit like me saying is it ok if Belfast Linfield and Glentoran join the SPL, they might not be good enough to beat the top teams but would beat some of the lower teams but let us join your league because you get more money than we do, I think Rangers and Celtic fans would get sick of playing in the English league and go back to playing in the SPL after a few years of not playing any Europaen football, lets face it they would be luck to get into the uefa cup if they were playing in the premiership.

y2krog2000
22-03-2007, 08:05 AM
I'm not saying the Old Firm would even be in the top 6 say, but teams like Wigan, Man City, Villa - they aren't great quality. I think its a bit unfair to say they wouldn't do well just because of their current opposition.

If Man City or Villa played in the SPL they would have a good chance of winning it but they play in England every week against top class teams every week so dont look so good, you just have to look at the 2 teams mentioned to see that there are some world class players in both sides.

jreynolds
22-03-2007, 10:54 PM
they might not be good enough to beat the top teams but would beat some of the lower teams but let us join your league because you get more money than we do
Basically your right. We want to join because we'll get more cash! And better games too. But you are thinking of the current teams and what they could do. But with the amount of extra money we could earn and in a setting like the Premiership we could attract a far better quality of player than what we can just now so we could only improve. Thats why I think we could eventually challenge for Champions League positions.

If Man City or Villa played in the SPL they would have a good chance of winning it
They would be two of the best teams but as you've pointed out thats due to a lack of decent competition. I'd be surprised if Celtic or Rangers didn't win it every year. I don't think Man City or Villa are atrocious teams, I just think the Old Firm are better. Usually, at least ;)

Shipoftheline
23-03-2007, 08:47 AM
But with the amount of extra money we could earn and in a setting like the Premiership we could attract a far better quality of player than what we can just now so we could only improve.

But this is something all the EPL teams are trying to do so Celtic and Rangers will be no different unless they have a secret no one else knows about ;)

jreynolds
23-03-2007, 12:16 PM
But this is something all the EPL teams are trying to do so Celtic and Rangers will be no different unless they have a secret no one else knows about ;)
Lol, yeah, its a secret ingredient in the pre-match meal, its gonna make us superstars :)

But there could be a few things to make it different for us. More support, more backing, more expectation and drive to win, the need to prove the English pundits wrong ;)

But I suppose the only way to see who's right is for them to play there which I just don't think is ever going to happen!

Shipoftheline
23-03-2007, 12:19 PM
But there could be a few things to make it different for us. More support, more backing, more expectation and drive to win, the need to prove the English pundits wrong ;)


They don't have the same support as Manu now and if they did get into the league the fans would have to get used to traveling alot more. They would also have to get used to loosing alot more which has a big demoralising effect (look at City) something they're not used to now being the only two teams with any chance in the spl

witchy2k1
23-03-2007, 04:45 PM
It'll never happen and nor should it happen.

Scottish football is **** and the 2 top teams bring nothing but sectarianism and bigotry, the English FA and FIFA would be mental if they ever allowed it.

chewinmafat
24-03-2007, 10:12 AM
Because he is to fat,and past it now although he was not bad for a weeeeeeeee while,and any way my 12 year old would get to the end of the pitch before him,
wee while? the guy has never been out of the team over the last 6 years under 2 different manager's and give his all..... .....do you watch the celtic games on a saturday or are u timing yer daughter running up and down a pitch

jreynolds
24-03-2007, 12:47 PM
They don't have the same support as Manu now and if they did get into the league the fans would have to get used to traveling alot more. They would also have to get used to loosing alot more which has a big demoralising effect (look at City) something they're not used to now being the only two teams with any chance in the spl
Not the same support as Man U but thats only one team, not the whole league. And I think you may be underestimating the passion of our fans, in particular Celtc. They have helped the club countless times by investing in regular share issues for starters. Getting beat a few times wouldn't put us off if we're playing teams better than the SPL standad.

It'll never happen and nor should it happen.
Scottish football is **** and the 2 top teams bring nothing but sectarianism and bigotry, the English FA and FIFA would be mental if they ever allowed it.
Oh yeah, your absolutely right, nothing but bigotry. Forget about the good football both teams can sometimes play. And forget about the hooliganism in England, bigots are fars worst. Never any racist chants or other derogatory shouts at games there. Or in any league. And of course, as we all know, slagging off someones religion is far worst than all, right? Btw, I do realise that bigots are scum and I hate that side of the game, but it is a minority of fans that are like this.

y2krog2000
24-03-2007, 01:24 PM
Not the same support as Man U but thats only one team, not the whole league.
Plenty of English clubs have far more supporters than Rangers and Celtic.

jreynolds
24-03-2007, 02:42 PM
Plenty of English clubs have far more supporters than Rangers and Celtic.
I don't have actual figures :) but I would be very surprised if a lot of them did. Can't seen there being many supporter clubs for the likes of Bolton, Reading or Blackburn based in America, Canada or Japan. Or having sell outs every game. Obviously the big clubs though - Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal - have a large following.

y2krog2000
24-03-2007, 02:52 PM
Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Newcastle United, Man United, Spurs I would say all them teams have a bigger following world wide than Rangers or Celtic. The only people you get living in foreign countries that support Rangers or Celtic are people who have immigrated from the U.K. "N.Ireland or Scotland".

jreynolds
24-03-2007, 05:03 PM
I would have to disagree on Spurs anyway. I doubt Newcastle as well. And if the only people who support the Old Firm from abroad are those who have emigrated from Scotland or Northern Ireland then surely the same can be said for teams like Spurs. (Only from England).

y2krog2000
24-03-2007, 05:20 PM
Spurs probably have more supporters than Arsenal and so do Newcastle, you think that Arsenal have more supporters because they are higher up in the league well it dosent work like that.

Shipoftheline
25-03-2007, 01:12 PM
Not the same support as Man U but thats only one team.


Very true but my money is on Manchester United having a bigger support than Celtic and Rangers put together

countryboy
26-03-2007, 12:24 AM
then it shows you know very little about football m8 .. celtic and rangers are world wide brand names . manchster united opened a shop in belfast and dublin .. both are now closed down . the celtic home top 2 years ago was the biggest selling football top in europe that year ..we have 50+ thousand season ticket holders that more than most english clubs have fans and we get this playing against teams like falkirk ..

Shipoftheline
26-03-2007, 08:38 AM
Sorry it took abit to stop laughing at the last post. The mighty we are the only two teams in the league have bigger support than Manchester United. A Manchester United with a world wide support and selling more merchandise than both clubs. It does show how little some people know thats for sure

Shipoftheline
26-03-2007, 08:41 AM
we have 50+ thousand season ticket holders that more than most english clubs have fans and we get this playing against teams like falkirk ..

Well like I said you only have two decent teams in the country and thats why it's always Celtic this and Rangers that when Scottish football is talked about so it's no wonder they have that support in Scotland. It's also no wonder you get those fans for playing teams like falkirk it's not like you will be playing Liverpool one week and Chelsea the next lol

y2krog2000
26-03-2007, 08:55 AM
then it shows you know very little about football m8 .. celtic and rangers are world wide brand names . manchster united opened a shop in belfast and dublin .. both are now closed down . the celtic home top 2 years ago was the biggest selling football top in europe that year ..we have 50+ thousand season ticket holders that more than most english clubs have fans and we get this playing against teams like falkirk ..

So Celtic are a world wide brand because they have 4 shops in Glasgow and 1 in Belfast :roflmao: The last statistics I have for the teams global income is for the 2004-2005 season and Man United were 2nd behind Real Madrid and United made ?166.4m Celtic came 16th and they made ?62.6m, and I do know that Man United came top of that list last year but dont have any figures, out of the top 20 in the world there were 8 from England and they are all the teams I already named and Man City.

Read this and you will see that Man United make more from ticket sales and hospitality than any other club so stop whining on about Celtic filling Celtic Park. BBC NEWS | Business | Man Utd dethroned as richest club (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4716174.stm)

Shipoftheline
26-03-2007, 09:41 AM
And note this bit


However, it still made more from match day revenues - including ticket sales and corporate hospitality - than any other club.

:)

jreynolds
26-03-2007, 01:35 PM
Spurs probably have more supporters than Arsenal and so do Newcastle, you think that Arsenal have more supporters because they are higher up in the league well it dosent work like that.

Well yeah, my mistake then. Would have thought Arsenal would have had more of a following abroad because they are always in Europe.


It's also no wonder you get those fans for playing teams like falkirk it's not like you will be playing Liverpool one week and Chelsea the next lol

Surely its a greater credit to us for getting fans to come and watch crap like Falkirk! (Apologies to Falkirk fans, they at least try to play good football!) I'm a season ticket holder and can tell you the fans get bored stiff at games because the opposition always just sit in and defend. Its the big European games that make it all worthwhile. Believe me, we'd have more fans if we were playing better teams even if it meant taking a beating sometimes.

Players always say they want to play against the best to improve. Well, its the same for teams as a whole. You seem to think we'd be mediocre in the EPL but I think we could only get better for playing better teams. Although this could mean taking a humping every now and then ;)

And ok, I'm not gonna argue that we are bigger than Man U, they are just about the biggest club in the world! But you point out they made most money from tickect sales and corporate hospitality. Its not surprising as they have, I think, a 15,000 greater capacity stadium and can charge a hell of a lot more for a ticket because of the teams they play.

Plus, we make something like ?30 million less (maybe more) than English clubs in TV revenue. Your teams get this, not necessarily because they have great support, but because you play better teams and more folk want to watch it. Going by that list, if Celtic had that kind of extra income the only teams in England to earn more cash would be the big 4.

Anyway, rant over!